Curse

bart · Nov 23, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by JorTheNormal

Maybe if you guys didnt go out of your way to make a post to bash the guy he wouldnt be responding in the same way. Kind of hyprocritical of you Bart since your post is also one or two lines just to flame someone.

Anyway, yes Anet is doing fine. People tend to exagerrate things too much to support a doomsday theory. And I've seen a few polls that suggest the majority of people are happy with Nightfall.

Disagree with me if you want, but don't dare call me a troll just for doing so.

ahh my friend... but i wasn't flaming him... i was giving constructive criticism in asking him to give valid points and evidence to strengthen his argument to defend his beloved game!

Narutoscryed · Nov 23, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by JorTheNormal

Maybe if you guys didnt go out of your way to make a post to bash the guy he wouldnt be responding in the same way. Kind of hyprocritical of you Bart since your post is also one or two lines just to flame someone.

Anyway, yes Anet is doing fine. People tend to exagerrate things too much to support a doomsday theory. And I've seen a few polls that suggest the majority of people are happy with Nightfall.

Disagree with me if you want, but don't dare call me a troll just for doing so.

No your not a troll.. but i would like to hear more of your opinion on why you think anet is fine. A lot of people come here with anet is fine opinions.. but No real opinions on why.

But first i will display why i think anet is not doing ok.

Lack of player interaction: "due mainly to the hero system" although the heros are helpfull to an extent.. having them all the time turns this game into a single player game with multiplayer capabilities. This lack of player action has also had a huge impact on general guild sizes. mostly the only active guilds around now have a strict pvp mindset.. while many pve guilds still exist.. the general numbers of guilds with more than 10 people in them are going down.

Lack of registerd user activity: I have read this in an opinion somwhere and although its pure speculation. it may have some truth to it.

Players that are registerd under the anet accounts are playing less and less. What would be a prime time for discovery and inginuity in the game.. is now stagnant time for players.. thus a lot of players no longer play more than an hour or so a day. some players will not even logg in untill new things like elite missions are added. The added ai issues has some effect on this aswell. Players no longer want to farm for goals such as fow armor or a rare item.. they would rather not play then go through the slow process of buggy ai farming.

Limited replay value of the game: many players have stated that after just one time through the game they are now bored.. and can hardly stand another mission or quest.. although the number of people is small it has been reported and thus has an effect.

PVP: pvp has now become more of a AI V AI and with that many old pvp players have stopped playing guild wars altogether. this can be seen very well with the downfall of some of the more popular ha teams that are now non existant.

Power traders: Gone are the days of buy low sell high: the people who played this game by the trade system are now begining to leave due to the utter worthlessness of ingame items.. "getting rich" nowadays means just having 100k as that would give you an amazing ammount of buying power.
=================================

All of these aspects of the game have in my opinion been effected by the recent changes. and due to those changes anet is seeing some problems.

So i belive strongly that anet is in a state now.. that they realize they are loosing alot of older players from the other chapters and they will decide to either:

A:Make some ingame changes to the core of the game to return it to a state similar to what it was before the update..

or

B:Keep changing the core style of gameplay and attempt to cater to a new crowd of gamers.

Either way as i stated i belive anet is in a very fragile state right now.

I feel strongly that the next big update that anet has planned will either make or break alot of players intrest in the game.
----------------------

Now i would really like to get some other players opinions in here on how they feel that anet is doing fine.

Loviatar · Nov 23, 2006, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narutoscryed

But first i will display why i think anet is not doing ok.

Lack of player interaction: "due mainly to the hero system" although the heros are helpfull to an extent.. having them all the time turns this game into a single player game with multiplayer capabilities. .

heroes are enhanced henchmen and henchies have been with us from day 1 to either fill in a missing person or make an entire party.

in a very early statement it was stated that with the henchmen and the instanced system GW could also be considered to be a single player RPG played online with the OPTION to play with friends if you want to.

the one constant request that has not simply come up and then died out like the UAS/level increase/aoe wars has been a constant series of requests for improved henchies.

every time a hench bug was made better people said thanks to the hench fix i can finally do xxxxxx mission/etc

they are culling the hardcore of all varieties and going for the common, casual gamer who does not insist that the game entitles him/her to 6 months of 5 hour a day gameplay

Antheus · Nov 23, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Farming: There's lots of farming to be done in Elona. AI change had no effect on it. Some just refuse to try new options, since for past 1.5 years they were doing the smite run. Chest runs have changed to no longer benefit from group.

Prices: This is not even remotely surprising. The total number of mod combinations has been exhausted in Factions. Any and all worthwile greens were provided there. There simply is no new combinations that could be added.

Skins: A small minority was living off the 100k+x ecto items. Those were always considered overpriced. Nothing was ever even remotely worth that much, that market only existed because a really small minority was willing to pay that much. With inscriptions, prices are more realistic.

FoW: After Factions, the ecto/shard prices went down, and stayed down for quite a while, until new generation got interested.

AI: Not much to be said here, the changes have improved mob behaviour. Rather than using one AoE and watching every single mob and its brother run all over the map they work really well now. Runners and some solo farmers experience difficulties. The new AI is not only solo farmable, it's in many cases just as viable as before. Just like the original UW farming nerf didn't kill farming, neither did this one.

Age: 18 months and counting. Vets now represent minority. Most have already moved on, others were waiting for an excuse. The sheer ammount of time spent on this game is surprising in the first place.

HA: Vets are leaving it. But then again, they never wanted to let anyone new into HA. R9 only anyone? That place was as limited as always. And looking around, HA still functions as it always did. Heroway perhaps, but at least people that have gotten fed up of rank discrimination or PUGs started to play.

GvG: Don't know here, but this part is unaffected by all of this.

RA/TA/FA/JQ/AB: Business as usual. The Faction related stuff died off, which was completely expected and known in advance.

Gameplay: Much replay value added by heroes, lots of quality PUGs, if you bother to find them (PUGing my 4th character through storyline, passing in first try almost without exception)

Heroway: Heroes > PUGs. Whatever floats your boat. PUGs won't care, and they don't care. Nothing has changed here, there's just much less annoying and often elitist players around.

Replayability: To each their own. For some there's lots of replayability, even in older chapters, some are done with the game. I hope nobody really expected it to last forever.

In game, I don't see horrible drop off in population. I see drop off in Prophecies, which became cakewalk with heroes. And yet, every single PUG I joined there was close to perfect.

GW is a mature game. For a game that's not even trying to lock players in with subscriptions and grind it has completely stable population since launch.

So yea, it's doing fine. If you feel it isn't, then it's really time to move on. Not because it's GW or Anet, but because this time comes in every single MMO.

The only complaints that were brought up so far:
- Boring (of course, you've been playing same thing for 18 months)
- Nerfs (deal with it, it's been the same since day one, drama ftw)
- Change in focus (markets have changed often enough before, so has focus of gameplay, and everything else)

Neither of these reflect anything that would indicate any true problem.

jesh · Nov 23, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I'm going to have to weigh in here and agree with the people saying that ANet is in dire straits indeed if some glaring issues are not addressed and soon. The AI is the number one thing that people seem to be disliking about NF. Their closed rank attitude towards this issue is starting to irritate a lot of people. We've been pointing out the issues with the new AI for quite some time and it still has yet to be fixed, if indeed it is even broken. There has been speculation that they intended the AI to be this way in which case the outcry against it should still be enough for them to revert it to it's original pre-Nightfall state regardless of whether it works as they want it to.
....

Str0b0, I agree with everything you've said. I loved NF at release, and now I'm at the point where I am so frustrated with the entire game that I can hardly bring myself to play it any longer. I LOVE this game, I just wish that it would actually be fun for any length of time. What I'm reffering to, is of course, the AI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

....

It also appears I am one of the very few fortunate ones who does not have major issues with the "AI problem". Bad guys get hurt = bad guys run for their lives. What is unrealistic about that -- that they're smarter than most human characters? People are complaining because there is an occasional glitch in that the foe senses you and attacks from farther than the aggro bubble. Hmmm. Again, maybe they're just smarter than the human player. If you know that is a possibility, then how about being a little more aware and careful? Oh, but wait a minute. Then you'd have less to whine about. My bad.
....

See my post here.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=664

These problems don't show up for a lot of people, and you're apparently one of them. This goes for you too, Cyril Aspect. I'm not just talking about wierd kiting, that I can deal with, I would even like it if it was done in a logical manner. What I'm referring to is the AI simply NOT breaking aggro, and "super aggro" as other people have called it, where your aggro bubble is almost infinitely large. Please tell me, how does this make the game fun? What is that skill Rebirth for, again?
If you people read any of the threads in regards to the AI you would know that not everyone sees these issues. Please refute my screenshots, kthx.

Is Arena Net dead? Probably not, I don't really care. But you know, I'm not sure if I'll bother to keep playing if things stay like this much longer. I bought Nightfall and Factions the day they came out. I beta tested 2 months before the release of Prophecies. I have 12 characters with more than 2500 hours, and these words are coming out of my mouth. I love you ANet. Now fix it.

Thallandor · Nov 23, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Farming: There's lots of farming to be done in Elona. AI change had no effect on it. Some just refuse to try new options, since for past 1.5 years they were doing the smite run. Chest runs have changed to no longer benefit from group.

Prices: This is not even remotely surprising. The total number of mod combinations has been exhausted in Factions. Any and all worthwile greens were provided there. There simply is no new combinations that could be added.

Skins: A small minority was living off the 100k+x ecto items. Those were always considered overpriced. Nothing was ever even remotely worth that much, that market only existed because a really small minority was willing to pay that much. With inscriptions, prices are more realistic.

FoW: After Factions, the ecto/shard prices went down, and stayed down for quite a while, until new generation got interested.

AI: Not much to be said here, the changes have improved mob behaviour. Rather than using one AoE and watching every single mob and its brother run all over the map they work really well now. Runners and some solo farmers experience difficulties. The new AI is not only solo farmable, it's in many cases just as viable as before. Just like the original UW farming nerf didn't kill farming, neither did this one.

Age: 18 months and counting. Vets now represent minority. Most have already moved on, others were waiting for an excuse. The sheer ammount of time spent on this game is surprising in the first place.

HA: Vets are leaving it. But then again, they never wanted to let anyone new into HA. R9 only anyone? That place was as limited as always. And looking around, HA still functions as it always did. Heroway perhaps, but at least people that have gotten fed up of rank discrimination or PUGs started to play.

GvG: Don't know here, but this part is unaffected by all of this.

RA/TA/FA/JQ/AB: Business as usual. The Faction related stuff died off, which was completely expected and known in advance.

Gameplay: Much replay value added by heroes, lots of quality PUGs, if you bother to find them (PUGing my 4th character through storyline, passing in first try almost without exception)

Heroway: Heroes > PUGs. Whatever floats your boat. PUGs won't care, and they don't care. Nothing has changed here, there's just much less annoying and often elitist players around.

Replayability: To each their own. For some there's lots of replayability, even in older chapters, some are done with the game. I hope nobody really expected it to last forever.

In game, I don't see horrible drop off in population. I see drop off in Prophecies, which became cakewalk with heroes. And yet, every single PUG I joined there was close to perfect.

GW is a mature game. For a game that's not even trying to lock players in with subscriptions and grind it has completely stable population since launch.

So yea, it's doing fine. If you feel it isn't, then it's really time to move on. Not because it's GW or Anet, but because this time comes in every single MMO.

The only complaints that were brought up so far:
- Boring (of course, you've been playing same thing for 18 months)
- Nerfs (deal with it, it's been the same since day one, drama ftw)
- Change in focus (markets have changed often enough before, so has focus of gameplay, and everything else)

Neither of these reflect anything that would indicate any true problem.

I agree with mostly what Antheus said and it sums up pretty well the current phase GW is going through as a game that have lasted for over 18 months.

__________________________________________________ _______________
Dont ever argue with an idiot. They will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

milias · Nov 23, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

OP: I think it's really all speculation right now, as we don't really know what's going on at ANet, even if there're indications that seem to suggest a downturn. We can speculate all we want, but I doubt ANet will ever likely release this sort of information; hence, all we say here, will, in all effectiveness, remain just that, speculations. I hope ANet is doing well, for the sake of all of its employees who would otherwise be out of a job. As far as I can tell, NF seems to be doing well. There was even a shortage of pre-orders worldwide. The unchanging jobs list may be attributed to the fact that they're unable to find a suitable candidate and that they're in no hurry to fill those positions, and are happy with their current hiring situation. Anyway, that's just my $0.02.

KESKI · Nov 23, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Am I worry about A-Net??
no...realy not my business, GW isnt my first game nor will it be my last. So far, I get my money worth=P
Is A-Net in some kind of trouble??
In my opinion, yes, not because GW, but any business running on one single project doesnt seem like a good idea to me=P(I realy hope they get other games on hand, not just the next chapter), then again, they are new.....for now.

Is GW fine??
Its a fine game, it suit my play style, which is about 8 hours per week or less. I dont feel presure cause I cant play much, if I am a noob its because I am not smart enough and make some dumb mistake, not because I dont hold some godly item or I am not the 1337 group "one with no life". In my opinion, that spells fine.

Is GW envirement fine??
Well, you can still find good people around, but no, I am not going to say its fine when I dont think it is=P I played with a lot of good people, and I have a long friend list of nice players I play with. However the over all just dont look good enough. I dont see many people communicate in a friendly manner, our public channel is fill with trade that shouldnt even be there(how is W T B different from WTB again??) And as much as I like hero as a mes, rangers and othe not so pve popular classes, I acknowledge that a lot of players just mind their own business now.

Is the AI fine??
No, its not, there are bugs, and A-Net openly said it is not the final result. However I do see all this change as an improvement as in "making a smarter ai". From the oldest, Kamakazi style slowly evolve to "Woo this area burn like hell" to the current "Man~ this guy is strong, I wish I can rage quit". Look like an improvment for me=P

there my 2cent

Das Hip · Nov 23, 2006, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

I have never seen a company work as hard as they do to put themselves out of business. Any company that does not work just as hard to retain REPEAT customers as they do new customers will not weather the storm for long. They seem to be more worried about the damn chinese farmer making a buck off their product than keeping their paying customers happy. If they spent half as much time on issues the repeat customers bring up as they do their jihad against the chinese farmer gw would be a thousand times better.

Spoken like a true Chinese gold farmer....

floppinghog · Nov 23, 2006, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Das Hip

Spoken like a true Chinese gold farmer....

amen. lol

Narutoscryed · Nov 23, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Its funny...

People who are with anet claim that all they always get flamed and called names by people who are not happy with anet..

but you come into here.. and we have some concerned players that honestly want to discuss some things about the problems..

and they get this all to common responce.

If your not happy then quit.

or

Nothing is wrong with anet. somthing is wrong with you.

or

there is not enough evidence to prove anything.

(Realize this is not exact wording.. but it gives a general idea.)

The people that are happy with anet sure know how to hate on those people with some serious concerns.

Keep in mind folks.. that we all play the same game.. and at one point we have all been happy.

look over these forums.. you will see some great questions that have just been blasted by the opposing side..

And yet the only time the worried side fired back was when soggybutt pushed some peoples (including my) buttons for the last time.

Key thing here is... we are all the same players that like guild wars. we dont hate it like some people like to think.. we are concernd for it.. and hope we can help fix it in some way or another.

Mercury Angel · Nov 23, 2006, 10:08 AM // 10:08

I'm going to close this. There have been some problems in this thread that have been a prevailing theme among a number of recent threads.
However, I assure you that some of these problems are going to be dealt with in a timely manner, pending investigation.

For the record, being baited into making inappropriate responses is not an excuse for making them. I realize that there have been a fair amount of moderation requests for this thread, and that they have not been heeded prior to now, but if things are getting heated, your best bet is to get out of there and cool down.
This has always been the case, but this serves as a warning, and a reminder; The leniency for posts getting personal, approaching, or reaching, the level of making personal attacks and accusations against other users is reaching an all-time low.

Aside from the above, as to this thread's original purpose;
While speculation is all well and good to an extent, and in many cases, even encouraged, there is a point where it serves very little purpose but to embroil others.
This specific kind of speculation is probably not desirable, for future reference. The original premise, that is, regarding the state of the company, not the points on whether changes in the game's content were for the better or worse.